Round 58: Schadenfreude

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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Dracojounin7 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:59 pm

To be honest, a role that wins after a certain number of rounds is a bad idea.

Especially here, where people have trouble regularly handing in night actions.

Regardless, gg wolves. We both lost.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Vatonnage on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:00 pm

Definitely not worse than any of Stalin's rounds

USER WAS BANISHED TO SIBERIA FOR THIS POST.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Yoshi on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:10 pm



I beleive this sums up how french is feeling right now.

French being the medic obviously.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by French Connections on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Firstly, sorry for being a dick everyone. By acting like I had a death-wish was the only way that I could get you guys to lynch and NK me.
Really nice round Shadi. I enjoyed the role, thanks!

Yoshi wrote:
I beleive this sums up how french is feeling right now.
French being the medic obviously.
Given that today was my first playing TF2, yeah kinda. xD


Last edited by French Connections on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Shadi on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:35 pm

Yoshi wrote:

I beleive this sums up how french is feeling right now.

French being the medic obviously.
That song from 44 seconds is so catchy :O
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by StalinCommander on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:41 pm

[_]-[_]

_________________
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[12:55:11 AM] Zyquux: inb4 stalin is playing us all

Zyquux wrote:From now on, I'm voting Stalin day one.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by CodePhoenix on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:57 pm

Seriously. Had to be one of the worst rounds I've played. No reveals at the end, no plot or even any clues in finding out who was who, everyone practically oblivious at anyone's roles, and French being OP with an instantwin ability. I did not enjoy throughout the entire round at all.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Shadi on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:01 pm

Phoenix wrote:Seriously. Had to be one of the worst rounds I've played. No reveals at the end, no plot or even any clues in finding out who was who, everyone practically oblivious at anyone's roles, and French being OP with an instantwin ability. I did not enjoy throughout the entire round at all.
First one was required communication, some people knew each other's roles by talking. But I agree, role reveal is a good thing.

And as for the instant win ability, did you read the posts about the balance regarding that?

Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Diabeetus-Tan on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:04 pm

Dracojounin7 wrote:To be honest, a role that wins after a certain number of rounds is a bad idea.
Especially here, where people have trouble regularly handing in night actions.
thank you

I think after my spirit has been thoroughly murdered by this round I'm going to sit out from mafia for a good long forever because wow
gg French 2OP4me

(I'm not mad at French, but I will say I'm upset by how badly this round was hosted. Without even any plot to provide any interest, and random rules that I don't think have ever appeared here before such as; being able to surpass lynches, not being able to see roles of death's is pretty bad to do without warning) <- mostly preference opinions
((also the thing about sending other people information accidentally several times..why didn't you start double checking after the first mistake?))
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Shadi on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:15 pm

Diabeetus-Tan wrote:
Dracojounin7 wrote:To be honest, a role that wins after a certain number of rounds is a bad idea.
Especially here, where people have trouble regularly handing in night actions.
thank you

I think after my spirit has been thoroughly murdered by this round I'm going to sit out from mafia for a good long forever because wow
gg French 2OP4me

(I'm not mad at French, but I will say I'm upset by how badly this round was hosted. Without even any plot to provide any interest, and random rules that I don't think have ever appeared here before such as; being able to surpass lynches, not being able to see roles of death's is pretty bad to do without warning)
((also the thing about sending other people information accidentally several times..why didn't you start double checking after the first mistake?))
Your normal size text:
I'm sorry that the round hasn't satisfied you. As for French being OP, I strongly disagree, did you read the posts regarding the 1 missing kill each round or?

Smaller sized text:
By plot do you mean a theme that didn't even affect the gameplay one bit or maybe a story that didn't? I wasn't sure if that was valued extremely high. However, note taken. As for new stuff, why is that necessarily bad? You test new stuff and then judge whether it's bad - you seem to be more xenophobic than hating the actual gameplay by saying that, imo. As for the not reveal role, you are right a warning would have been good before the actual round end. I see you guys didn't like the concept of actually communicating for roles more than you're used to and I won't repeat it.

Your even smaller sized text.

I had written monk out of 2 people's names due to the mistake I did with you first round then next round I just looked after monk to be sure and had forgotten I wrote it another place to remind myself to explain about the mistake.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Cloak on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:24 pm

I was fucking right about mmage.
That is all.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Diabeetus-Tan on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:31 pm

Shadi wrote:
I'm sorry that the round hasn't satisfied you. As for French being OP, I strongly disagree, did you read the posts regarding the 1 missing kill each round or?

Smaller sized text:
By plot do you mean a theme that didn't even affect the gameplay one bit or maybe a story that didn't? I wasn't sure if that was valued extremely high. However, note taken. As for new stuff, why is that necessarily bad? You test new stuff and then judge whether it's bad - you seem to be more xenophobic than hating the actual gameplay by saying that, imo. As for the not reveal role, you are right a warning would have been good before the actual round end. I see you guys didn't like the concept of actually communicating for roles more than you're used to and I won't repeat it.

Your even smaller sized text.

I had written monk out of 2 people's names due to the mistake I did with you first round then next round I just looked after monk to be sure and had forgotten I wrote it another place to remind myself to explain about the mistake.
1. Yes. I still don't think any sort of auto win is fair, regardless of mafia not sending in kills. It's basically as if the round has a time limit that no one was informed about

2. I just meant story. There was zip, zero, none. Only "Person dies. Person survives"
Phoenix did that one game and everyone hated it (the lack of story, nothing else was hated to my knowledge) until I swooped in and started writing story for it. Story is surprisingly important and gives people something to look forward to even after they die.

3. "As for new stuff, why is that necessarily bad? You test new stuff and then judge whether it's bad - you seem to be more xenophobic than hating the actual gameplay by saying that, imo." what

Cloak wrote:I was fucking right about mmage.
That is all.
thank you for bringing this to my attention

2. Insane seer would just get the opposite result of what he'd normally get. Diabeetus never peeked an actual mafia or wolf
I  peeked MMage at some point and wasn't told he was "Good" despite result flip. What happened there? Why was I told "Evil" as all my other results?
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Shadi on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:46 pm

1. Yes. I still don't think any sort of auto win is fair, regardless of mafia not sending in kills. It's basically as if the round has a time limit that no one was informed about

Alright, I guess that's a different opinion then. I had really not planned for French to win at all unless he played it extremely well which would be hard.


2. I just meant story. There was zip, zero, none. Only "Person dies. Person survives"
Phoenix did that one game and everyone hated it (the lack of story, nothing else was hated to my knowledge) until I swooped in and started writing story for it. Story is surprisingly important and gives people something to look forward to even after they die.

I c and noted.

3. "As for new stuff, why is that necessarily bad? You test new stuff and then judge whether it's bad - you seem to be more xenophobic than hating the actual gameplay by saying that, imo." what
Instead of giving new stuff a chance you seemed to instantly dislike it instead of seeing how it went down in actual action first.

Cloak wrote:I was fucking right about mmage.
That is all.
thank you for bringing this to my attention

---

2. Insane seer would just get the opposite result of what he'd normally get. Diabeetus never peeked an actual mafia or wolf
I  peeked MMage at some point and wasn't told he was "Good" despite result flip. What happened there? Why was I told "Evil" as all my other results? IF he wasn't framed (opposite of opposite,) then my bad again
I know these mistakes leave bad impression but I normally don't do mistakes at all, so I was just really unlucky/clumsy from my side and it was a mixture of hosting a game I didn't build and I'll be much much more careful with that in the future you have my full apologies when it comes to that. Thanks for playing despite mistakes and the bad circumstances.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Diabeetus-Tan on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:51 pm

Shadi wrote:
Instead of giving new stuff a chance you seemed to instantly dislike it instead of seeing how it went down in actual action first.
Is that why I tried out the round completely, then hated it at the end, AFTER seeing how things went down in action, with many mistakes that resulted in me being 100% useless, when I could have been 70%ish useless had mistakes not occurred? (though I guess me finding out Mmage wouldn't have mattered anyway with R8 time limit.)

I am not one for drama but don't go saying I didn't give your new game mechanics a chance.
With that I have nothing left to say to you or about your round. Thanks for the responses.

Edit: R4 actions

Villagers:
Vaton (CPR DOC): Targets Diabeetus
Diabeetus: Peeks MMage
Neutral:
French: Block Link
Wolf:
Peek Stalin
NK Link
Track Stalin
just wanted to clarify, no one framed MMage so he definitely should have been shown to me as 'Good'


Last edited by Diabeetus-Tan on Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Shadi on Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:00 am

You originally complained about seeing functions you hadn't seen before. Making me feel like you disliked that before trying, if I misunderstood feel free to scold me.

As for the mistakes, completely understandable. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by Archer on Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:31 am

Okay, I’ve been as patient as you asked me to be, and you’ve really been toying with my heartstrings. Ever since this entire new set of ideas spawned I was telling myself from the beginning to just give it a chance, just watch and form an opinion since I wasn’t even gonna play as it was, maybe throw some early-made viewpoints from the sidelines, it is just a game after all. I believe in change and trying out new ideas so long as they aren’t impractical or too large a gap. Ever since you made your first big blunder here, I told myself with confidence that you’d change for the better “it’s just mafia after all, it really is just a game” (which you can even SEE I posted in a thread.) I’ve been patient from the very start and you had to be a child when it was uncalled for in multiple cases, and said you’d take all criticism so buckle up.

Inb4 tl;dr
Inb4 wahh he’s mean so it’s not criticism

Before we really start:

http://halolzmafia.iftopic.com/t70-dearest-hater-and-shadi
http://halolzmafia.iftopic.com/t9-tips-for-hosting-your-round

Do you not see these?
The first one was made obviously to get your attention, and the second is STICKIED for a REASON.

The main idea:
YOU HAD NO RIGHT TO NOT KNOW HOW TO PREVENT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR MISTAKES AND MAYBE THAT YOU REALLY SHOULD HAVE.
You’ve been an active member here for a while now, participating in our games and whatnot, understanding how mafia being played here is different from the other place you try it at. Judging from how you set this game up, the way you play mafia where you come from really DOES have a radical difference compared to here. Don’t you think before setting up your game you could have:

1:
TOLD us about how we would have wanted to play? You had Hater helping you for crying out loud. I understand tenure is not a universal factor but people understand what they do and don’t want on a credible level, especially us. And before the game even started, there was already confusion. Even after the game began, people were in an awful mood because of how messy the entire thing was.
You could easily have avoided this if you simply went onto Skype, or hell, even the forums, and given us the option to play like we “classically” do, while giving us the option to look at how you play “normally”.

Also if you’re going to fall back on “but you never know until you try it!”, people give that argument too much credit. Especially if people HAVE tried it and it ended up exactly as they predicted. If you don’t see at least two or three massive flaws in this then you’ve only failed yourself.


2:
Considered a PROPER amount of people for your round? This was the only problem I had when you set up the original post, even if I kept telling myself not to lose faith, which only kept happening with each page the thread created. We hardly ever get 23 people in a game, because the active bunch of us that participate on threads irrelevant to mafia games can only manage to make it half the time because we have to do that thing, what was it called again… oh yeah
Having a life outside of mafia.

I don’t even need to get into argument as to how even as a community we’re still people with other interests and things to do, despite the fact you missed something this basic. ESPECIALLY taking into account how after having been here for months, you should have an idea as to how many people join rounds on average. We even keep past threads as TESTAMENT to that, among other things, such as lessons in balance.

Also why did you think that planning “I should have this many people in my round” before “I should have all the roles planned out and with me” and/or “I should prepare just in case this round doesn’t get enough people” was at all a good idea. It is not. You were not even as prepared as a host should have been on a basic level. That is critical failure, especially when hoping to host a round this disorganized.


3:
Given us a round that gives more of a taste rather than a full course of what mafia games YOU normally play are like, if you REALLY wanted us to play like this so bad? If this was just the taste then you really need to tone it down. You started throwing a ton of new ideas at us, all of which would be faulty as a first impression when mashed together, because the whole point of Epic Mafia is to take educated guesses with roles to spice things up, NOT toss them out of balance. At least that’s how it works here, like you should have figured weeks ago.

As for your OTHER comment…

“The xenophobia and conservatism seems to be a tad too strong in general.”

Here ladies and gentlemen is what we refer to as a massive interpretation failure.

Okay before moving onto my next point, I just want to say that I never see you hanging around threads away from mafia games, so you probably have a bad, wrung out impression of us. It’s not because of close mindedness we hated the ideas and their execution, because we’ve had rounds in the past where we played with some interesting differences and mixup in play (See Leo’s Touhou round) and we already have our own notion of how role madness works with other properties.
Are you still not getting it?
You were practically setting yourself up for this one. You cannot just barge into another forum with a completely different set of playstyle and rules, and just expect us to like it off the bat ESPECIALLY AFTER FIFTY SEVEN GAMES, BONUS GAMES, AND WHEN YOU MADE ONE OF THE ABSOLUTE DUMBEST MISTAKES OF COUNTING ON TOO MANY PEOPLE TO BALANCE YOUR GAME FOR YOU AS A GLARING, PRIMARY FLAW. Your Xenophobia complaint is not at all valid here, especially since it managed to piss off Phoenix of all people so easily.
If you’re presenting us to new roles that’s perfectly fine, but having it as role madness WHILE presenting said roles is NOT okay for a first impression. Things then become practically indecipherable and up to nothing but luck and thus becomes nothing more than a mindless guessing game, or at least that’s the impression you could be leaving on a lot of people. That is not fun. Fun requires immersion and interactivity, mindlessness is not with either. Even if there's some semblance of discovery, you need to be able to give that to us at a rate in which we can understand it WITHOUT being frustrated like crazy.


E.G.: FRIGGIN Diabeetus-tan OF ALL PEOPLE


4:
WHY DID YOU THINK FORCING TIES AND HAVING THE TIE-FORCER LYNCHED IN ANY SITUATION WAS OKAY.


“the fact you are annoyed shows that it’s doing its purpose”
-SHADI IN RESPONSE TO NALE TELLING HIM THIS MECHANIC IS STUPID

“I don’t see others mass complaining about it”
But that doesn’t change the fact it’s an awful idea. You don’t see others mass complaining about it but even then you could sense a lot of discomfort. What are you doing by having this as a rule is making things OUT OF THE PLAYER’S REACH AND EVEN WAY MORE OUT OF ANY EQUALITY/BALANCE.
There is literally no way to save yourself in the common situation people worried about.
Trying to save yourself ends in yourself getting killed, and not saving yourself only does the same.
THAT IS NOT IMMERSING
THAT IS NOT FAIR
THAT IS FRUSTRATING TO THE PERSON GETTING LYNCHED FOR NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER
THERE IS NOT A SINGLE REASON FOR THIS TO BE USED OTHER THAN TO BE “LELSORANDUM” WHICH IS NOTHING MORE THAN A REASON, IT CAN’T EVEN QUALIFY WELL AS A JUSTIFICATION

And let’s not forget another one of your golden comments:

“It seems to be a typical thing you do if you look back at the first time it was discussed trying to make a tie is called “nale-ing””

This pissed me off especially.

You think just because a tie is being forced when it’s against the favor of the town needs to be fixed with something that makes forcing a tie pointless to EVERYBODY in EVERY SITUATION?
What you’re basically doing is trying to put out a match with a forest fire.

Tying is used for more than just annoying people like Nale does. I’m not defending that the way Nale “abuses” ties is good, I’m against the idea that you think that making ties an absolute undesirable this match for EVERYONE just because ONE person annoys people with it, is actually a way to justify yourself and this horrible implement, when ties can be manipulated to an inherent good. That’s another braindead move you seriously should have considered fixing.


5:
IF THIS ROUND WAS NOT TO LIKING AND COMPLETE PREPARATION, NOR TO YOUR HOSTING EXPECTATIONS, YOU COULD HAVE DELAYED TO MAKE APPROPRIATE CHANGES

HEY REMEMBER TWEWY MAFIA
PHOENIX DELAYED THAT FOR DOZENS WORTH OF MAFIA GAMES
DID WE CARE
NO
CAUSE WE JUST MOVED STRAIGHT TO THE NEXT HOST FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS TO FOLLOW
WAS IT EVEN TWEWY MAFIA ANYMORE
NOPE
DID WE CARE?
NO, WE DIDN’T, WE REALLY DIDN’T HAVE A REASON TO
AND YOU COULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME


And the thing I hated you for the most:
I’m sure you aren’t aware of this, but I’m not even mad about this mafia game. Well, normally I’d be frustrated is more like it. Your lack of quality balance composition was only among the list of reasons for me to hate you but I wouldn’t have let it affect my impression of you too much if it was SIMPLY a bad mafia round. I would have just let bygones be bygones, watch from the sidelines, give my criticism without any overtones of angriness, but you had to blow it.

“This guy is hilarious. How old are you, 11?”

That was uncalled for
On every single account.
I can handle a game just fine, and like I said, wouldn’t have been angry otherwise, but there is literally not a single reason for anyone here to be outwardly harsh to Scept like that.
I almost threw my phone at the wall out of anger when I read that. Wouldn’t mean much to anyone here but I’m pretty sure everyone shares the same impression to some extent.
You tried to provide a fun mafia game for everyone and people were starting out at the time and were not really used to it, so in order to help this, the next thing you do is insult Scept needlessly.
No really, there wasn’t a single reason for you to do that.
I don’t care if Schadenfreude is a term. I don’t care if there was going to BE a story but you just cancelled it. I don’t care if the point of that word is to mean enjoying the misery of others (which is a nonsensical first impression to leave as a host when you base even your round’s playstyle around that principle.) There wasn’t any plot that even started off with the game. That’s also liable to his definition.

Yes stories are vital. If you deny that they have a role in mafia games in encouraging enjoyment

just

don't even.


So on a closing note:
Bravo.
You are special. No really, it takes a heightened degree in being moronic for anyone to fail this catastrophically, miss this many things.
This was like watching someone shoot their foot over and over then aiming for the legs when they whine it hurts.

And you know what? This is all coming from someone that wasn’t even playing the game.

I don’t know about the others, but I am nothing short of amazed. As I was typing this I actually found myself, trying to process whether the entire situation, I was awestruck to the core; nothing else can describe my current disposition better. Because without realizing it until the very end, I just had to waste an hour and a half of my time, typing all of this to you (somewhat in advance), when really, every single complaint I listed is nothing short of avoidable, when you use this highly accessible, yet wondrous concept
we refer to these days

as

COMMON


SENSE.



You are an exemplary paragon for everything a mafia round host should not be. Ever.


And with that said, regarding my final words, unless you go through a significant change of principle, intellect, and heart…
I sincerely hope you just never host again.

Thank you.
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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

Post by DA on Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:13 am

ENOUGH!!
THIS HAS GONE WAY TOO FAR!

STUFF WILL HAPPEN. THIS THREAD WILL BE LOCKED. EVERYONE, AND I MEAN EVERYONE, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU. EVEN IN MYSELF.
apparently everyone else who actually enjoyed the round thought that the punishment must be less severe, so we're doing a bit of a mind cooldown... bear with us for a sec

This has been the worst possible thing to ever happen to mafia in the history of these forums.
I just hope that this hasn't caused a SECOND mafia holocaust...

The thread will be locked to prevent any further arguing and bickering. Any and all admins that decide to continue while the thread is locked will have their admin powers revoked.

Play 'em off, TF2 Announcer...

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Re: Round 58: Schadenfreude

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